Future Triathlete?

34 Comments for this entry

• 

  mountainCLYDE
  January 9th, 2010 on 9:04 pm

  First, I can’t wait to see you in triathlons! If your stroke technique is decent and you can come out of the water reasonably close, I’m certain you’ll be giving a lot of the pro’s a reason to train a little harder!

  In terms of being faster off the bike, I think it is a combination of two things — fast & flawless transition + specific intervals. Years ago, my tri coach had me set up a bike trainer at the track and do sets of bricks which varied from 5min bike/800meter run, to 10min bike/1mile run. For example, 3(5:00/bike + 800/run)– 2(10:00/bike + 1600/run) — 1(7:30/bike + 1200/run). I was doing mostly sprint tri’s since I was still in college and was a 400/800 guy, but those bricks truly helped me find my running legs immediately get on pace…
• 

  Blake
  January 9th, 2010 on 10:46 pm

  I’ve always wondered what guys like you and Adam Goucher are gonna do once you hang your spikes up. I really admire folks like Join Benoit Samuelson and Dick Beardsley who keep hammering on and on. But I also know how hard that is to do.
• 

  Neal
  January 9th, 2010 on 11:17 pm

  your swim times demonstrate what i have thought- there is a lot of cross over aerobically, possibly more than what people give xtraining credit for, and you’re an all round athlete. I have been doing tri’s since being injured several years ago and found I was able to improve a lot as a runner because of the aerobic base I created and the focused higher intensity runs. For me that is three runs a week, 1 faster interval session, 1 threshold/race pace and one long run with race pace + or – Intwined in it. To really get comfortable off the bike I practice transitions, bricks, and drills that help my mechanics going from a bent over tight posture- to a upright posture… But I am no where near the level of elite and would be interested in what others do.
• 

  George Zack
  January 10th, 2010 on 12:37 am

  Well!

  Lance of course is the case study here, right? This is a guy who came from the tri background, and arguably has a big big big V02 / aerobic engine. Yes? I mean, seven wins at the Tour de France?

  Still, seemed to be in the hurt locker pretty good come NYC marathon. No?

  GZ
• 

  Josh Evans
  January 10th, 2010 on 3:48 am

  Shoemaker vs. Ritzehein in a Duathlon would be so sweet.
• 

  Ryan
  January 10th, 2010 on 11:39 am

  The problem with doing 3 hard run workouts a week is that it would leave little room for hard cycling and swim workouts. Its a very tough balance in triathlon because you might improve your run split, but if your swim and bike get slower, you overall time may be slower, and only the overall time counts
• 

  cman
  January 10th, 2010 on 12:21 pm

  you’re sounding alot like Lance here…

  can’t wait for a few years!
• 

  Neil Cook
  January 10th, 2010 on 8:57 pm

  Specifically about running off the bike – it’s an neurolomuscular issue. It’s the change over from non-weight bearing, leg movement that is confined by the pedals and cranks to weight bearing and non-confined leg movement. While coaching I have found that some people can just make tha change over without issue, others need to practice the shift.
  A secondary issue is pedaling technique. Many cyclist believe that even pressure around the entire pedal circle is best. Recent research has shown no improvement in power or speed with pulling pedals up, in fact there was a decrease in performance. I believe that is part of the problem in transitioning from cycling to running. Lance Armstrong consulted with someone in Italy and changed his pedaling technique. The technique he learned to use involves tapping the pedals and “dancing” on them. It becomes very similar to running – very short exlosive bursts. If that technique can be mastered, running off the bike should be easier.
• 

  DQ
  January 11th, 2010 on 11:29 pm

  Snore. Perhaps expand on your conclusion rather than brag about your swimming and cycling PRs.
• 

  Ted
  January 12th, 2010 on 3:31 pm

  haha, I love the arrogance of youth. I recommend you upgrade to cat 4 before you declare yourself the next great stage racer
• 

  bike?
  January 12th, 2010 on 9:12 pm

  im curious as to when you did that ride in colorado and what kind of bike you used??? clip in pedals?
• 

  Dathan Ritzenhein
  January 12th, 2010 on 11:32 pm

  It has been so long since I did any Triathlon training stuff that it is hard to remember that feeling of coming off the bike, but I do remember it being a very awkward feeling. As was mentioned above that Lance was really hurting in NYC, that does show that the muscular training is different but don’t forget that Lance was a fat blob when he ran that and was out partying with Paris Hilton every night for over a year. He would have looked pretty bad on a bike too I think. As for when I rode left hand it was amazing the difference that the equipment made in that ride. I rode my own old Cannondale from the mid 90′s, just an aluminum frame R500 or something like that, and I rode 69 minutes, then just a week later I used a friends nice Trek 5400 and it was a huge difference, although not fit the best, but so much better still and I shaved three minutes off. Those Brick workouts seem like they would really help with that. I guess that does make sense that three hard running sessions a week would be tough to do the quality of the other events. As for bragging, I was actually just bringing this up as something for some other non-running readers to be interested in. You tell me if those are good, I really don’t know, that is why I was writing. Thanks for your thoughts. Also give me some idea’s for some future blogs.
• 

  Runnermatt
  January 13th, 2010 on 12:56 am

  I would say when you break a 13 year old American Record and score a Bronze in a World Championship, you’ve earned a little arrogance.

  It’s not unusual for runners to think about how their running skills could transfer to the tri. Heck, when I was injured this year, I hit the bike big time and asked my tri/biking friends if my times were any good. A question isn’t bragging, it’s a question

  Dathan as a fan, I find the discussion quite interesting.
• 

  Peter Cheney
  January 13th, 2010 on 1:01 am

  Dathan,

  This is a little off topic but I think still within the bounds of this discussion. I’ve recently become reacquainted with long distance running and enjoy reading about the history of the sport. Following contemporaries like you is needless to say very exciting and hopefully in the future the media will give this discipline more coverage.

  From my limited knowledge I gather that as a distance runner ages there is a natural tendency to engage in longer races as it is difficult to remain competitive in shorter contests like the 5k. Your sub 13 time was incredible, will you still be competing in this distance or focusing more on 10k’s or marathons?

  One more question…

  Saw your height/weight and it must be on the very low end of BMI in the normal range (ironically in college I was 107 at 5′ 6″ when running). How does an elite athlete like you come up with the ideal weight/height and muscle/fat ratios from an outcome perspective? Is it largely trial and error or there some science involved?

  Thanks!
• 

  Jason Kaminski
  January 13th, 2010 on 1:50 am

  I am a fan of yours- saw you win Footlocker your senior year when you beat Webb and Hall. I am also a runner of 30 years and a triathlete of 14 years. 66:00 is a decent time, about what I ride it as a Cat4 (and I get an extra 12 miles riding in from Longmont). I agree that there is cross-over fitness, but to run faster off the bike you actually need to be a stronger cyclist, not necessarily a stronger runner, IMHO, but also from experience.
• 

  Runpartner.com
  January 13th, 2010 on 1:38 pm

  If you want an accurate measure of where you’re at physically on the bike, you should consider doing a power threshold test using a power meter.

  On an indoor training or uninterrupted stretch of road, do 5 second, 1 minute, 5 minute, and 20 minute all out efforts. You can do them all on the same day/ride, but make sure they’re in that order and you’ve recovered fully in between.

  Take the average power output from each of the efforts and divide it by your weight in kilograms (average watts/kg), and see where you fall on this chart:

  http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/images/powerprofile_v4.gif

  It would be awesome to see where you ended up. We’d really get a sense of how much aerobic crossover there really is (Lance was 35-40lbs overweight when he ran those marathons; as you pointed out, not an accurate measure).

  As for running fast off the bike, that’s affected largely by two simple factors:
  1. How fast(and for how long) you can run fresh
  2. Minimizing the effects of the bike

  The first is overlooked by most amateurs, and is effected almost entirely by just runnning.
  The second is impacted by a combination of bike strength (the ability to ride fast over extended distances), and speed endurance on the run (the 10k in a tri is much closer to the 2nd half of a 20k or half marathon than it is a 10k).

  With those factors in mind, workouts should be tailored to an individual’s strengths/weaknesses and athletic background.
• 

  Marco
  January 13th, 2010 on 2:37 pm

  Your running results are outstanding and mind boggling, but I think you should enter a triathlon for the humbling experience before declaring yourself a tri stud. You won’t be the first guy to think he is a world crusher to hobble home on one wheel when he figures out doing all 3 back to back is a little different;) I had your same cockiness when I entered my first full IM distance race and found out I wasn’t as tough as I thought I was….best of luck to you though.
• 

  Alex
  January 13th, 2010 on 6:53 pm

  Ritz,

  Really enjoy reading your blog. Don’t expect a direct answer but maybe you could cover this in a future blog…

  You confess that you would struggle to win an Olympic/World 5000m medal due to a lack of kick, but obviously your top end speed, or ability to maintain that, improved considerably this last summer. Obviously over the past few years you had built an incredible base, but I was wondering did you really start to hammer shorter fast reps under Alberto (than you had ever done before?)? Like you were doing what would be viewed as workouts for 800/mile or was it all 5k type pace work? (Don’t expect you to give specific sessions as know you’ll want to keep those secret but as a young runner who also considers himself to have a lack of top end speed and kick it’d be great to know!)

  Finally, I WOULD LOVE to see you and Lance go head to head in a tri or duathlon in the future. It would be sick!
• 

  Dylan
  January 13th, 2010 on 9:22 pm

  Hey Dathan, I’ve been a fan of your running for some years now. I’m a high school senior runner. Last winter I upped my milage too quickly and got injured for the spring track season. This winter, I joined the swim team to avoid lots of impact and even though I’m not an excellent swimmer, I feel like I’m building a decent base along with my weekend long runs.
  I was wondering how you think this strategy may or may not pay of this spring on the track.

  Thanks
• 

  mountainCLYDE
  January 13th, 2010 on 9:40 pm

  For future blog posts, I would be really interested in how your periodization works (and how volume & intensity varies throughout the year), especially since you’re training for everything from a 5K – marathon — and excelling in it all! I know the question may be somewhat in Alberto’s territory, but it would be interesting in how you approach a season that encompasses so many race distances.
• 

  Darren Smith
  January 14th, 2010 on 12:48 am

  Very interesting discussion, and since I coach a big bunch of world class triathletes, the answer to running off the bike is effectively to teach them to look and run like you did in the world half. (In fact I use the video of the race to give them a mental picture). Get rid of all the breaking forces, have the right stability, range of motion, leaness, pacing strategy etc, and heh presto. It really is not rocket science. Of course we also increase strength on the bike, lots!
  Incidentally and in the interests of stimulating this discussion further might I add, that I did think about approaching Mottram last year, because he too has swum and ridden at a decent level like you. The running level in Olympic distance triathlon is indeed soft at present and would be a cherry pick for one of you types.
• 

  Sam
  January 14th, 2010 on 10:00 am

  To the poster above or anyone else: do any of you have a video of the World half Marathon Championships from 2009?
• 

  BenZ
  January 14th, 2010 on 12:10 pm

  For future blog topics I would really like to know more about your progression over the course of a given training cycle. At what point do you start ‘overreaching’ and how many weeks in a row do you push the envelope before needing to recover?

  Also, if you could talk about sleep a bit more too I think that would be interesting. I find that is the hardes thing for me to manage due to my schedule. But I realize how important it is to the recovery process.
• 

  Dathan Ritzenhein
  January 14th, 2010 on 5:25 pm

  I’ll answer some of the questions since the last reply I put up. Thanks for the idea’s about next blogs, keep them coming. I will put up a new one tonight or tomorrow about training, the different programs I have been in and what sample weeks would look like. Also I will try to address the questions for periodization in those blogs. Here goes for the other questions.
  -I still plan to make the change over to the marathon but I want to have one last good shot at running some big PR’s at 3000-10000m. I think once I make that change over the next year or two, I will still run those shorter races but I will not be going for sub 12:56 or 27:00. You do lose speed as you age because your VO2 max decreases and you power as well, so I think that is why you see people migrate to the longer races with age.
  -As for BMI it has been a little bit of a trial and error with me but now I know my ideal race weight is around 120-122. So I try to hit that by mid training so I am not losing weight to close to the race.
  -Thanks for letting me know what kind of time that was. I wondered about it and it is just something fun to look at. I think you are right though, being strong off the bike might mean some decreased energy use for the run.
  -When considering the time spent racing, I would think the effort would be somewhere between a half marathon and marathon. I don’t see fuel being a a huge part like a marathon, but it still is getting into the distance where it would have some effect. I could see coming off the bike and just being a little low on energy and that could kill the run. Interesting about the power output, how would you measure that?
  -I think about using swimming as a base for running that it will help but getting use to the pounding is so important. I know that I can hammer everyday in the water or bike but the running you just can’t. I think even though Lance was way out of shape for his marathons, you can just see that it does really abuse the body a lot.
  -Thanks for the plug on the World Half. I think the intensity level of a hard half marathon is so tough, much closer to a 10k than a marathon. Bringing that to the Tri would be very cool to see. I would love to have a crack at Mottram in a Tri, that would bring a good crowd to watch. I don’t know what to think about the drafting in races, what do you guys think? Is it good, making it more exciting, or does it simply favor certain strengths?
• 

  Runpartner.com
  January 14th, 2010 on 11:13 pm

  There are four popular power meters for cycling, all of which are pretty expensive – 600-1200 bucks.
  1. ibike (a rough estimation)
  2. polar (measures chain tension)
  3. powertap (uses the rear hub)
  4. srm (uses the bottom bracket)

  Power training in cycling has become increasingly popular in recent years because it’s the only way to really measure effort on the bike – unlike the track or the pool, there are too many factors effecting speed on the bike for it to be meaningful.

  Drafting in triathlon was introduced because it became impossible to regulate drafting when you’ve got 60-80 guys coming out of the water within 20-30 seconds of one another. That it’s more exciting to watch is a positive side effect.

  That being said, the swim is more important in that format because you have to make the bike pack to be competitive on the run (you’d lose too much time otherwise).

  Because you’re drafting though, you’re saving 60% of your energy, which translates to a faster run. (looking at the top guys 10k splits in draft vs nondraft formats shows that).

  Alistair Brownlee is probably the only guy in triathlon that is a sure bet to break 28 on the track (he ran 29:05 in a tri this year) – but at the top of the sport, there are a number of low 28 minute guys.

  That being said, if you could come out of the water in the top 20, and learn to ride/race in a group, you’d be able to do some serious damage on the run!
• 

  bobfell
  January 15th, 2010 on 1:44 am

  I like your chances in any draft legal TRI including the Olympics. Basically the thing is if you can swim within a few seconds of the leaders, it is not so hard to make the pack on the bike & sit in for the next hour.
  Because most the triathletes are not going to hammer the bike portion because all they do is give their competitors a free tow to the run. Also spinning hi rpms like Lance on the bike does not tax the muscles used on the run. Well, not the muscles a runner uses on the run. Not to disrespect triathletes but most of them basically run like fast joggers.Choppy strides, too upright, bad footwork etc etc. Although the bike affects the run, if done correctly the bike should be utilizing the hip flexors and quads and the run more the hamstrings. If you push too big of a gear on the bike you lose the flexibility you need to access the proper running form.
  go get em ritz!
• 

  Steve
  January 15th, 2010 on 1:56 am

  Idea for a future blog post: I noticed after one of your track races that you crossed yourself. I thought it was pretty cool that you expressed your belief in God in that setting. What role do your religious beliefs play in your running?

  I don’t know much about triathlons, but I think you should just go for one in the near future. Just do it for fun like most of us and see what you can do.
• 

  bobfell
  January 15th, 2010 on 2:02 am

  I also wanted to disagree with the post by runpartner.com. When i was getting ready for my first tri all i heard was how it would take at least a half mile before you can find your form off the bike.When i practiced transitions i felt like i was on form in 30-45 seconds. Unfortunately come race day i neglected my own instincts, pushed the 2nd half of the first mile out of transition(to make up for the poor form of the 1st half mile)and when i came through well under 5 i knew it was gonna be a long day, and it was.
  Preconceived notions by alot of non runners have limited the progress of triathlon IMO
• 

  duggar1
  January 16th, 2010 on 11:37 pm

  I can see it now… Dathan Ritzenhein wins 2016 Olympic Triathlon, coming off the bike in 15th place, and then catching and annihilating the field with a 28 min 10K. Classic.
• 

  Tony
  January 18th, 2010 on 2:58 am

  I am a former serious runner who switched to bike racing and back to running again. The trick for me was to get used to the pounding again. I raced mountain bikes all summer and then did some training with a friend for a 10k. We did a big track workout (16×400 at race pace with 400m jog recovery) and I was pushing him, even though he had been training for the 10k long before I joined him and was a fit runner. I am not trying to brag, in fact, after a couple more harder runs I had some serious IT band discomfort, but the engine was there; its just a nod towards the carry over of the bike to run. I was very recovered by the end of the jog portion and I credit that to the intense periods of effort required during true mountain bike race settings.

  I think if you continue to dabble with some cross training you can minimize the amount of time required to make the switch. I’ve also found that a bike ride can make a much more interesting and and productive day if my legs are sore from a hard run the day before. However, I know a lot of cyclist who can’t really run, and a lot of runners who can’t really ride. There are definately some differences in muscle recruitment going on in the two disciplines.

  If you do the riding thing, its important to ride with “real” cyclists so you can really pick up the skills necessary to maximize your bike experience and not annoy the other cyclists who expect you to do things like hold a line, not slow down when you stand up to pedal (very annoying when your drafting), or drop a bottle in front of their wheel.
• 

  ben
  January 18th, 2010 on 6:17 pm

  Alister brownlee has never run 29:05 for a 10k, and would never run sub 28 mins. tri courses are notoriously inaccurate. Alister qualified for the european u23 crosscountry champs that have just passed and the guys ahead of him in the the team could not get near to breaking 28mins. He is a great tri-athlete but an ordinary runner.
• 

  Brian
  January 18th, 2010 on 8:54 pm

  Ritz –
  Watch out before you call LA a “fat blob”.

  You sure you swam 1600m? You know that indoor pools are 25y long right?

  The best swimmers of all-time are just sub-15 for 1500m and the WR holder would be about 15:40-45 for a 1600m swim. I am thinking that you swam 1600yd.

  Also, to the other poster who said Lance was 35-40 lb overweight … no eff-ing way. Lance’s racing weight is ~159lb. He is 5’10. I heard he was 180 and dropping when he ran that marathon.

  Why even compare Lance to DR anyway? That is like the 2000 Lance saying he is going to take up running after done cycling and hope to run 13:10/27:30/2:09.

  It is disrespectful.
• 

  Scott
  January 24th, 2010 on 12:55 am

  For comparison’s sake, in a pro race, we go up a 6% grade (say for a 30-minute climb) at around 4.8 watts/kg, and the final climb of the day would be above 5 w/kg. For me, that is somewhere in the neighborhood of 325-350 watts (I am 67kg or so). Pretty average for a solid Cat 1 or US-based pro. In Europe, for a bigger stage race, that number jumps to at least 375 watts, probably higher, and 6.8 w/kg was always considered the gold standard needed to win a grand tour in the EPO days. Not sure, but it is probably a bit lower these days, as people are doping less (hopefully not at all, but that is wishful thinking). Without a powermeter, it is impossible to say how fast you are going. but typically for a grade like that, a pro race would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 18-20 mph, and at least 15mph if ridden at tempo solo. As a pretty mediocre low 14 minute 5k runner in college, it took me a few years to get solid on the bike, up to a Cat 1 level. Completely different muscles are used, not to mention the whole bike-handling issue. It is one thing to be strong, and quite another to learn how to ride a bike. Not really an issue in TT’s though, but road racing is more fun!
• 

  Amy
  April 18th, 2010 on 8:07 pm

  Alister brownlee has never run 29:05 for a 10k, and would never run sub 28 mins. tri courses are notoriously inaccurate. Alister qualified for the european u23 crosscountry champs that have just passed and the guys ahead of him in the the team could not get near to breaking 28mins. He is a great tri-athlete but an ordinary runner.

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